whakahekeheke

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whakahekeheke

Political economy and tumblr miscellany. Quietist, post-political, libertarian non-statist, voluntarist, university student, Wittgenstein, crew, surf, uke, New Zealand.

emergence; my other tumblr, which has more reblogs and discussions and mini debates


WARNING: If you send me a message or question, it might be a really long time before I can get to it.

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  • Reply to Squashed: "Consumerism is collective"

    Good things that arise from collective action, like culture, collaboration, and community, don’t count. And any debt individual triumphs owe to collective stability is conveniently forgotten. 

    As I explained, “collective” norms like language and culture and community are necessary and usually good, but are emergent from individual self-determination as opposed to top-down from individuals who are supposed to represent the collective. There is a big difference between collectivism and individually voluntary “collective” action / emergent norms - that is whether the collective or individual is considered primary. The distinguishing feature of collectivism as opposed to individualism is not interaction or cooperation, but the ideological basis of justification for analysis and, in praxis, for proactive physical coercion.

    The problem is that while (as I said) collective norms and action do exist and are obviously beneficial (language, culture, law, morality, etc.), they do not come from and cannot be known a priori by individuals, including those who control top-down coercive institutions supposed to represent the collective. It is the myth that they (1) can and (2) will act in the interests of “the collective” that subsidizes such such top-down coercive institutions.

    Take something that seems collective. We’ll use the angry lynch mob feeding off its own energy and collective prejudice… the mob violence should properly be attributed to the individualism. 

    It should be attributed to whatever motivated the individuals, yes, obviously. The individual is the primary unit of analysis. That does not mean they were motivated “by individualism,” though they could hypothetically be motivated by anything (more likely a collectivist ideology like racism than anything else).

    Whakahekeheke concludes that we can never truly know the values and desires of somebody else

    No, you seem to have drastically misread. We certainly can know what someone else values. They reveal their values by their voluntary choice (and we can safely assume physiological generalities like the desire for air, water, food, eyesight, etc). However, though I can guess, I can’t know what you value better than you know what you value. 


    —so collective actions and collective values are somehow inherently impossible.

    Non sequitur. We certainly can cooperate and act collectively and we obviously can have shared values - this is how the world works. What is impossible is for you (or a politician) to know what those values are or actions should beyond individually voluntary human interaction. Again, the point is that you can’t know what some adult values better than they know what they value.

    This is going to come as a real shock and disappointment to a lot of philosophers who have been laboring for thousands of years to have all their work dispatched so quickly.

    Yes, it did, in 1972 when economist Kenneth Arrow won the Nobel prize for the Arrow Impossibility Theorum  that logically proved collectivism was intellectually worthless bunk - from Rawls to Marx. Arrow was not the first to do this, and it is easily derivable from common sense, but his thorough logical proof cemented microeconomic method (marginalism) in economics, which is what drove Marxian and orthodox Keynesian economics out of academia (also, their predictions failed…). Unfortunately, the undisputable axioms of methodological individualism have not yet spread to the social sciences of sociology, anthro, political science, etc. or even consistently through all schools of economics.

    You think you bought that Kei$sha album because you invented your own musical tastes? 

    No, now you’re talking about metaphysical free will, which is irrelevant to this issue. Whether your individual values are shaped entirely by your environment, genetics, or whatever - they are your values and I can’t know them better than you.

    It means paying attention to relationships. It means community. It means striving to understand others rather than assuming they are all either identical to us or intrinsically unknowable. It means communities attempt to give individuals the support they need to flourish—even when that flourishing means pretending they’re not part of a community.

    I’m very much in favor of all that, and none of it needs to be based on or is at all helped by the superstitious notions of collectivism

      

    Posted on May 9, 2010 via whakahekeheke with 53 notes

    Source: whakahekeheke

    1. ccearchingsince92 liked this
    2. thediamondage reblogged this from whakahekeheke
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    6. whakahekeheke reblogged this from whakatikatika
    7. anotherword liked this
    8. whakatikatika reblogged this from squashedcomments and added:
      People do that all time — from football teams to families. The difference is this is a political philosophy. And...
    9. gp4u liked this
    10. squashedcomments reblogged this from whakatikatika and added:
      great definition....make sure you weren’t using a definition like this one
    11. tenleid liked this
    12. haibaran reblogged this from whakahekeheke and added:
      Super super cool.
    13. paulpearl liked this
    14. spongefile liked this
    15. whakatikatika reblogged this from squashedcomments and added:
      A doctrine in political philosophy holding that the individual’s actions should benefit not the individual but some...
    16. squashedcomments reblogged this from whakahekeheke and added:
      [Original Post] On Collectivism...collectivism other than extreme forms
    17. rat-bastard liked this
    18. sniffsomefeltpen liked this
    19. whakahekeheke reblogged this from squashed and added:
      You’re stating it...absolute terms when its a matter of degree and you’re conflating
    20. ducksqueak liked this
    21. heavysigh reblogged this from squashed and added:
      Squashed wins this one.
    22. abcsoupdot liked this
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    24. hardenthefuckup liked this
    25. squashed reblogged this from whakahekeheke and added:
      Whakahekeheke still doesn’t...Collectivism. And, to the extent that “Collectivism” means...
    26. orionwong reblogged this from whakahekeheke
    27. orionwong liked this
    28. d2fang liked this
    29. whakahekeheke reblogged this from squashed and added:
      As I explained, “collective” norms...culture and community are necessary and usually good,...
    30. galaxyrise liked this
    31. haibaran liked this
    32. ductape liked this
    33. jessearmand said: I think you’re looking at Marxism from the side effects of coercion of communism. From my point of view, some of the Marxism principles could be applied in a particular industry where “workers” are unable to advance as an owner of their own labour.
    34. stuff-to-think-about liked this
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    37. american-decline reblogged this from squashed
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    41. squashed reblogged this from whakahekeheke and added:
      Whakahekeheke has written an elegant bit...consumerism. Here’s
    42. caseanova liked this
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    44. emilialas liked this
    45. krthing said: Very interesting! Though the talk on ideology blurred with organization such that its position on (libertarian) communism was conflated with collectivism. Consumerism may feed off the longing for individualism, but without giving anything back to it.
    46. erikajayne liked this
    47. mrfrankthegoddamntank liked this
    48. whakahekeheke liked this
    49. mrfrankthegoddamntank reblogged this from whakahekeheke and added:
      Though minuscule,...great post: Wow. I’ve never read...well...
    50. endlessyuji liked this
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